Rhys Sais ab Ednyfed (1030 - abt. 1070)

Born 1030 in Kingdom of Powys, Wales

Ancestors

Descendants

Died about 1070 at about age 40 in Kingdom of Powys, Wales

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Biography

Name

• Rhys ab Ednyfed, commonly called Rhys Sais. Some sources say "from being bred among the English," while Lloyd says, "from having learned the English language. ^[1]
• Lord of Oswestry, Whittington, and part of Both Maelors. ^[2]
• Rhys Sais. "The adjectival sobriquet of Roger's great-grandfather, Rhys Sais, indicated that he had English ties or affinities." ^[3]

Rhys Sais ab Ednyfed ap Llywarch Gam ap Lluddica ^[4]

Birth Year Estimation

Boyer estimates Rhys' birth as, say, 1030 ^[4] Wolcott estimates a birth year of 1025. ^[5]

Some popular genealogies show a birth year of 990, which reflects a conflation of his mother Sioned with an earlier woman of the same name.

Marriage

Rhys married Efa, dau of Griffith Hir, descended from Tudor the Great, of South Wales. ^[2] Assuming Rhys' birth year as 1025, his marriage year would most likely be 1045. If Efa were 15 at her marriage, an estimated birth year for her would be 1030. Popular genealogies show her born at 1035; her birth year has been moved up to 1030.

Wolcott reports that Rhys Sais of say 1025 married his first cousin, Efa ferch Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon; Cynwrig was the brother of Rhys' mother, Sioned. ^[6]

Married Efa, daughter of Griffith ap Griffith, Prince of South Wales

Lloyd, however, notes: "I am unable to ascertain whom he married, for it is quite impossible that Rhys Sais, own nephew to Gwladys, the consort of Rhys ab Tudor Mawr, could have married, as Lewys Dwnn states that he did, Eva, daughter and heiress of Gruffudd Hir ab Gruffudd ab Yr Argwydd, Rhys ab Gruffydd ab Rhys ab Tudor Mawr. ^[1]

Lands

At the period of the Norman Conquest a large tract of the Marches of Wales, including the greater part of the present parishes of Whittington and Oswestry, the district of maelor, etc, was held by the head of a distinguished Cambrian line named Rhys Sais, which latter application was given to him because he was conversant in the Saxon or English language.^[7]

Rhys Sais was Lord of Chirk, Nantheudwy, Whittington, Oswestry, Maelor Isaf, and Ellesmere. ^[1]

Intermediary with English

Frederick Suppe has suggestged that Rhys Sais had been an intermediary between English and Welsh before the 1066 conquest. ^[8]

1070 Division of Property

Rhys Sais doubtless came to an amicable arrangement with the successful intruders; for it is recorded that, in the year 1070, he divided his possessions among his sons. ^[7]

Tudyr, the eldest son, had his father's lands in Whittington and the district of Maelor; but he clearly held them under Roger de Montgomery; for he is recorded in Domesday as a tenant to the Norman Earl of Shrewsbury, to whom he paid a chief rent of four pounds five shillings. ^[7]

Bleddyn, the eldest son of Tudyr, had, at his father's death, the lands in Maelor ^[7]

Ranulphus (in Welsh, Gronwy, 'Ronwy, or Wrenoc, as he was variously called, the younger son, had the lands in Whittington. In Welsh pedigrees ie is styled Gronwy Pefr, i.e. Ranulphus the smart or handsome.

1086 Erbistock

The scholarly consensus is that the Rhys listed by the Domesday Book as holding Erbistock in 1086 was Rhys Sais. Erbistock was a vill enclosed within a loop on the Western or "Welsh" side of the river Dee at the point where the borders of Maelor Gymraeg, Maelor Sysnaeg, and Shropshire all intersect. Rhys Sais was probably an interpeter or intermediary between Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, who came to rule nearly all of Wales, before his death in 1063, and Earl Aelfgar of Mercia. ^[9]

Death

Rhys Sais died in 1070. ^[9][1]

Issue

Rhys Sais left three sons: (1) Tudor ab Rhys (2) Elidur, and (3) Iddon.

Rhys Sais' sons are mentioned, though not by their individual names, in Brut y Tywysogyon in 1081, and the fifteenth century poet Gutun Owain mentions Rhys by name, which suggests that memory of his exploits persisted in the oral lore of the region for centuries. ^[10]

Estimate dates of birth -- one year after marriage, then two year intervals. Four named children appear in Geni.^[11]

1. Tudur ap Rhys. Rhys Sais appears to have named sons Tudor and Elidyr. ^[6] #Tewdwr ap Rhys, of Chirk, Whittington; appears in Geni. ^[11] Estimated birth 1048. Rhys "was father to the "Tuder Walensis" cited in the 1086 Domesday Book as the holder of land in Whittington under Earl Roger de Montgomery." ^[6]. Named by Rhys Sais as a son ^[6]Tudor ap Rhys Sais married a Sioned ferch Rhiwallon. Chronologically that lady may have been a daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn.^[12]born c. 1065 or a daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynwrig ap Rhiwallon ap Cynwrig ap Dyngad, a lady who would also occur near 1060. If the latter, she would have been a first cousin of Tudor but original sources are lacking. We prefer the first listed possibility.^[6]Tudor Tudor is one of two sons named by Wolcott. Rhys had an eldest son, Tudor ap Rhys Sais. ^[2]Tudor ap Rhys Sais married Jane, daughter of Rees Vychan ap Rees ap Meredith and had Tudor, Grono, Cyhelyn^[13] Named by Lloyd first ^[1]
2. Elidir. Rhys Sais appears to have named sons Tudor and Elidyr. ^[6] Elidir ap Rhys Sais Sais. Appears in Geni ^[11] Estimateed birth 1050. Named by Rhys Sais as a son ^[6] Eilydr is the other of two sons named by Wolcott. Elidur, Lord of Trefwy or Eyton Isaf, Erlisham, Borasham, Sutton and Tref y Rug or Rhwyton, is named second by Lloyd. ^[1]
3. Iddon. "Rhy Sais of c. 1025 appears to have named sons Tudor and Elidyr (but probably not Iddon as many claim. ^[14] Tudor had sons, Bleddyn and Gronwy, while Bleddyn's son Rhys is also called Rhys Sais. That man, born c. 1115, had sons Iddon, Tudor, and Elidyr. And both the latter men named a son the same as the earlier brothers: Bleddyn ap Tudor and Meilyr ap Elidyr. ^[6] Iddon (Bleddyn) Iddon is identified by Wolcott as a son not of the first Rhys Sais, but of the second. Father of Iorweth Hên, Owen Owain Fychan, ancestor of Dymokes of Penley Hall, Thomas, ancestor of the Pennants of Downing, Cynwrig Sais, Rhirid and Elen.^[15] Lloyd names Iddon third. He was Lord of Dudlyston and part of Oswestry. He bore argent, a chevron inter three boar's heads couped gules, tusked or, and langued azure.
4. Ranulph De Wrenroc; appears in Geni.^[11] Estimated birth 1046. Not named by Rhys Sais as a daughter. Ranulf
5. Generys verch Rhys Appears in Geni. ^[11] Estimated birth 1052. Not named by Rhys Sais as a daughter. However, Lloyd says, "he also had a daughter named Generys, who married Ednowain ab Ithel, Lord of the Bryn, in the parish of llanfihangel ym Mlodwel. Argent, three greyhounds (or wolves), passant in pale argent. ^[1]

Excluded as a child by Wolcott:

1. Iddon. Wolcott believes him to be a son of the second Rhys Sais.
2. Enory m. Ednowain ap Ithel, of the Bryn in Powis^[16]
3. Daughter of Rhys Sais m. Uchdryd ab Edwyn ab Goronwy^[17]

Descendants of Rhys Sais, Lord of Whittington, etc, and Efa, daughter of Gruffudd: ^[18]

1. Tudor of Whittington m. Sionet, d. of Rhys Vychan
2. Elidur, lord of Eyton
3. Iddon, lord of Duddleston

Currently shown are the following children's children:

Bleddyn m. Agnes, daughter of Llewelyn ap Iorwerth ap Cadwgan ap Elystan Glodrydd

1. Owen m. Efa, daughter-heir of Madoc and widow of Iorwerth ab Owen Brogyntyn. They had:
   1. Iorwerth Gam ap Owen
   2. Thomas
   3. Owen Vychan
2. Madoc
3. Bleddyn

Iorwerth Hên

1. Iorwerth Fychan
   1. Iorwerth Foel
      1. Madog Lloyd of Bryncunallt
      2. Gruffydd of Maelor Saesneg
      3. Morgan of Maelor Saesneg
      4. Ednyfed Gam
      5. Ieuan of Llanfechain

1079 Killing of Gwrgan ab Seisyllt

In 1079, these three sons of Rhys Sais slew Gwrgan ab Seisyllt ab Ithael ab Gwerystan ab Gwaethfoed, King of Powys. ^[1]

Descendant

Hywel Grach, 4th son of Llewellyn ab Gruffudd ab Cadwgan (ap Meilyr ap Eilydr ap Rhys Sais II^[19]ap Bleddyn ap Rhys Sais I ap Ednyfed ap Llywarch Gam ap Lluddica ap Tudor of Trevor ap Ynry), Lord of Eyton, descended from Tudor of Trevor Ynry, and Gwenillian verch Owain ab Traehearn ap Rotpert.^[20]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7} Jacob Youde William Lloyd. The history of the princes, the lords marcher, and the ancient nobility of Powys Fadog and the Ancient Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen, and Meirionydd. The Noble Tribe of the Marches of Powys and Fourteenth Noble Tribe of Gwynedd. London: T. Richards,1881. Volume I Page 312 Rhys Sais appears on pages 310-311. Accessed 6/6/2019 jhd
2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1 2.2} J. Bernard Burke, Esq. A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland for 1853.(3 Volumes). Volume III, Supplement, Corrigenda, and General Index. London, 1853. https://books.google.com/books?id=S2hHAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA236&lpg=PA236&dq=%22Ednyfed+Gam%22&source=bl&ots=OIX6qYOHc2&sig=fhY_dA3_DXTPPf2yIH4JvtPXa60&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEQQ6AEwCGoVChMImfvtiJ_KxwIVRtgeCh0DOwG7#v=onepage&q=%22Ednyfed%20Gam%22&f=false. Accessed August 27, 2015
3. ↑ Frederick Suppe, "Interpreter Families and Anglo-Welsh Relations in the Shropshire-Powys Marches in the Twelfth Century," In C. P. Lewis, ed., XXX. Anglo-Norman Studies. Proceedings of the Battle Conference 2007. Woodbridge and Suffolk: Boydell and Brewer, 2008. p. 196 https://books.google.com/books?id=y7iJZf99CTgC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=%22rhys+sais%22&source=bl&ots=aaldnSMvdx&sig=xken-8SoGTal75Eaipw2fFMCHdw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCGoVChMI6vb_he_txwIVDluSCh3iBQ8Y#v=onepage&q=%22rhys%20sais%22&f=false. Accessed Sept 10, 2015
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1} Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans. Generally follows Bartrum. By the author: Santa Clarita, California, 2004. Rhys Sais is #10 on page 357
5. ↑ Darrell Wolcott, The Clan of Tudor Trevor. http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id55.html Accessed August 26, 2015. Welsh genealogies are long on pedigrees and short on dates. As a result, the dates sometimes attached to individuals conflict with dates attached to their parents or children. Darrell Wolcott, President, Center for the Study of Ancient Wales, has constructed estimated birth years for those coming before and following Tudor Trevor which seek to resolve the conflicts. Born in Jefferson, Texas in 1935 Darrell Wolcott grew up in Ohio. After a career in banking he took early retirement in 1996, and returning to his place of birth he created and endowed the Center for the Study of Ancient Wales (a non-profit foundation with a library of some 3200 volumes) located in Jefferson, Texas. The foundation has constructed a small castle to house its library and offices and acquired copies of thousands of source and secondary works related to the history of Wales, many of which are otherwise unavailable outside Britain. At present he is its sole researcher.
6. ↑ ^{6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 6.6 6.7} Darrell Wolcott, The Clan of Tudor Trevor. http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id55.html Accessed August 26, 2015
7. ↑ ^{7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3} Joseph Morris. The Family of Fitz-Warine Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological and Natural History Society. Shrewsbury, 1882: Volume V, page 243. Accessed December 15, 2017. [[Day-1904|jhd]
8. ↑ Frederick Suppe, Ball State University, Muncie, Indiana. Roger of Powys, Henry II's Anglo-Welsh Middleman, and his Lineage Welsh History Review, Vol. 21 (June 2002), pp. 1-23. Accessed Sept 11, 2015
9. ↑ ^{9.0 9.1} Frederick Suppe, "Interpreter Families and Anglo-Welsh Relations in the Shropshire-Powys Marches in the Twelfth Century," In C. P. Lewis, ed., XXX. Anglo-Norman Studies. Proceedings of the Battle Conference 2007. Woodbridge and Suffolk: Boydell and Brewer, 2008. p. 198 https://books.google.com/books?id=y7iJZf99CTgC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=%22rhys+sais%22&source=bl&ots=aaldnSMvdx&sig=xken-8SoGTal75Eaipw2fFMCHdw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCGoVChMI6vb_he_txwIVDluSCh3iBQ8Y#v=onepage&q=%22rhys%20sais%22&f=false. Accessed Sept 10, 2015
10. ↑
11. ↑ ^{11.0 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4} Erin Spiceland, Manager, Efa verch Gruffudd, http://www.geni.com/people/Efa-verch-Hir/6000000005440058265. Last updated December 5, 2014. Accessed Sept 5, 2015
12. ↑ Burke's "Landed Gentry", under the family of Lloyd-Davis of Whittington, identifies the wife of Tudor as Janet (Sioned) daughter and co-heir of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn. We see no good reason to seek a different Rhiwallon as her father.
13. ↑ Sir Bernard Burke, A genealogical and heraldic dictionary of the landed gentry of Great Britain & Ireland for 1852 (Google eBook). Colburn and Company, 1852. added 2014-07-05, amb
14. ↑ Under the 1081 entry in the Brut, we are told that Gwrgeneu ap Seisyll was slain by 'the sons of Rhys Sais". In his "History of Powys Fadog, vol ii,p. 152, Lloyd claims those sons were Elidyr, Tdor and Iddon. There is no evidence the sons living in 1081 had a brother named Iddon; the Iddon ap Rhys Sais found in the old pedigrees dates from c. 1150. Rhys Sais II of c. 1115 is the only man of that name known to have had sons named Elidyr, Tudor and Iddon." Footnote, Wolcott.
15. ↑ The history of the parish of Llangurig, p. 240
16. ↑ Burke, p. 1023, added 2014-07-05, amb
17. ↑ J. Y. W. Lloyd, p. 154
18. ↑ H. F. J. Vaughn. Oswestry, Ancient and Modern, and Its Local Families, pp. 193-224, in Archaeologia Cambrensis. The Journal of the Cambrian Archaeological Association. Vol I, 5th Series, Table, p. 210. London: Pickering and Co, 1884 https://books.google.com/books?id=PtU4AQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA211&ots=_0j1QTangt&dq=madoc%20lloyd%20iorwerth&pg=PA212#v=onepage&q=madoc%20lloyd%20&f=false
19. ↑ Bernard Burke, id=iWRHAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1023&lpg=PA1023&dq=rhys+sais+bleddyn&source=bl&ots=bOC3DOdJJ7&sig=EmyyHJqVDTtwHgN8uK2tsAP2uHA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4OWgU_D-LNKxyATemoGgBA&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=rhys%20sais%20bleddyn&f=false p. 1023
20. ↑ The history of the parish of Llangurig, p. 72, By Edward Hamer, Howel William Lloyd

See also:

• Jacob Youde William Lloyd, The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher, and the Ancient Nobility of Powys Fadog: And the Ancient Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen, and Meirionydd, Volume 4 (Google eBook). T. Richards, 1884.
• Sir Bernard Burke, A genealogical and heraldic dictionary of the landed gentry of Great Britain & Ireland for 1852 (Google eBook). Colburn and Company, 1852.
• http://www.geni.com/people/Rhys-Ap-Ednyfed/6000000000804915477